Episode 84 Transcript

Banoo Behboodi: Welcome to the Professional Services Pursuit, a podcast featuring expert advice and insights on the professional services industry. I'm Banoo, and I'm very excited to have you here. Thank you for making the time to join us today. In this podcast series, we simplify the complex process of purchasing technology or software solutions, guiding you through the many components and key decision-makers involved. Our goal is to break it down and make it easier, covering every step along the way.

Today, we are speaking with Meredith Brake, VP and Head of Service Ops and Enablement at Altus Group.She will share her experiences and insights on evaluating current workflows, identifying pain points, and setting clear goals for new solutions.Thank you for joining us, Meredith.We know how busy you are, so let's start with an introduction to yourself and your role at Altus before diving into the details.

Meredith Brake: Hi. Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be part of this podcast. As Banoo said, my role is Head of Service Ops. Our business at Altus is a commercial real estate platform for software solutions. In addition to software solutions, we have a large delivery team that uses our software solutions to create valuations and help with advising on development deals, all within the real estate platform. My team specifically supports any delivery team member in the company. We support about 1,500 people in different ways, including training, project management, and standardization and process. So that's what my team does.

Banoo Behboodi: Perfect. Thanks. And, in all transparency, you are a customer of ours. We appreciate our partnership. Altus is a partner of ours, and you've gone through this process of implementing Kantata with your team. But it shouldn't matter. It shouldn't matter whether it's Kantata or not. The lessons learned and methods and approaches that you're going to share should be applicable to whatever software decision the customer is trying to make or the listeners are trying to make. So, talk us through how you went through it. I know you got engaged at the point of implementation in this case, but talk us through what that looked like in looking at the requirements going into it and then how you processed that into an implementation.

Meredith Brake: I'll take a step back before I talk about the Kantata information specifically. At Altus, we have another group called One11, where our job is walking into a company, again, a real estate company, where we help those companies make system implementation decisions. We will actually walk through the whole process from beginning to end to help them do that. I worked with that team in this role where I'd go into a company, create the business requirements, understand what the needs are, understand what's a nice to have, what's a must have, and what's a critical requirement. We would create those processes within all the different businesses throughout the company and we would score it. Then, we would go out, create an RFP, and go to all the different vendors. Most of them were ERP vendors for real estate programs, and we would have them score what the capabilities of that product are. Then, they go through different demos from the different companies on the shortlist.

From a system requirements perspective, I've sat on both ends. I've been a client and I've also been on your side of being from a software sales perspective and being more of the PM, project management, to help guide them through the process. Walking in, we had a much bigger vision of what we were looking for as we were making that decision.

The team that made the decision on buying Kantata had to have gone through the same processes that I have, with this team from a high - level knowledge.We went through a whole list of requirements, what we needed from, like I said, what's critical, what's a nice to have, and what's a need to have. With that, we made some decisions.

When we were looking at the system before we were using Kantata, we were using three different systems to get what we needed out of it.There were three different key requirements that we needed that were very hard because they were three different systems and they didn't talk to each other. We had a standalone resource management system, a standalone time management system, and then we would use Smartsheet to forecast.

What Kantata gave us was the ability to bring all three together.There was a resource management, there's invoicing, there's forecasting, and there's time tracking. We were able to get the metrics we needed out of it. The two systems that we were comparing against were our ERP system that had a project management tool embedded in it and Kantata.

When we chose Kantata, it was for a reason that we don't even use, which was because it was the ability to invite a client to it. And we actually don't even use that functionality.The funny thing is that we did choose Kantata over our ERP system, and it wasn't even the reason. But what we have learned about Kantata is that it's flexible, and it gives us the ability to get metrics out of it that would have been much harder with a larger ERP system that had a lot more controls.

Banoo Behboodi: When we look at the requirement, I want to go back to all the engagements you've had in gathering your requirements because it's such an important step in making that decision. How do you prioritize the requirements in the selection process? But then how do you loop back when you have made a selection to implement it? Any best practices or things you would recommend considering? Because like you said, you chose Kantata for the communities, but what became the emphasis or priority when you took on Kantata was different than the reason you selected it. So how do you continue to evolve the prioritization of the requirements from the selection process through implementation?

Meredith Brake: To be successful, you need to be flexible and see how the product integrates with your daily activities. You must go through the process to understand its nuances. When onboarding new business units onto Kantata, I emphasize three key metrics: invoicing, forecasting, and resource management. Don't try to tackle everything at once. Instead, focus on these metrics to ensure you can make informed business decisions based on the data.

From an implementation perspective, we worked closely with the Kantata systems implementation team and mostly listened to their expertise.In hindsight, we realize that while we thought we knew best, their experience was invaluable.We knew we needed a place to store and extract data, and listening to their guidance helped streamline the process.

Banoo Behboodi: What I want to highlight is a critical success factor when implementing a project like this: having the endpoint in mind. I appreciate that you emphasized to the team the importance of understanding the insights we need to run our business. Based on those insights, we designed our approach accordingly. Is there anything more you'd like to share about that method? You've been extremely successful in obtaining insights that were previously unavailable. How did that approach influence the design and implementation to achieve this success?

Meredith Brake: I don't know if we got to exactly where we wanted to during the implementation, but we reached a good foundation. We took what we needed, set up the projects, and configured a few business units, focusing on time tracking initially. We didn't have a solid invoicing policy or a great forecasting policy at that point.

We started involving the accounting team to review the outputs and worked closely with each business unit to ensure they understood how the outputs interacted.For example, in our time and material projects, resource management drives the forecast.We emphasized to the teams how much easier it would be to work from the beginning rather than redo everything at the end.Consistently, we stressed the importance of proper initial setup to avoid redundant efforts, as the forecast is always a monthly requirement.

We spent a considerable amount of time making engagement leads own their projects.While this hasn't been successful in every business unit, it has worked well in about half of them. Ultimately, we created a core team of project administrators—referred to as the PACs. Their role is to oversee the Kantata support inbox, ensure projects are set up correctly, manage timely invoicing, and communicate with engagement leads. Though we aim to push this responsibility back to the teams, each new implementation teaches us more.

Initially, our focus was on getting projects and time entries into the system.Subsequently, we realized the need to track engagement margins.Without accurate forecasting and time entries, engagement margins can be misleading.Hence, we've concentrated on ensuring resource management and forecasting are done correctly to derive accurate engagement margins.

With each new business unit we onboard, our approach has improved.We've become more successful by focusing on the desired outputs and refining our process with each implementation. Every time we add a new business unit, we get better and better.

Banoo Behboodi: And Meredith, based on my experience and what you've said, it seems crucial to have the endpoint in mind when designing the system. However, during the initial implementation, it’s important not to include a full scope of reporting because you won't know all the specific needs yet. You need to be a few months into the implementation to understand the system better before defining the reporting requirements accurately. So, even though you have the end in mind, you can't fully achieve it in the first phase of implementation. What are your thoughts on that?

Meredith Brake: No, you definitely can't. You have to learn the system. There will be nuances. One thing we learned from implementation is that when you pull data from an old system and onboard it all at once instead of on a monthly basis, the metrics get skewed. We realized we need to be more thoughtful in how we pull in data to maintain better historical accuracy. Initially, we didn't think we'd use it from a historical perspective, but now we do.

You don't know everything until you start using the data and systems. One of the hardest things is to get compliance and have people enter their time. It's a challenging piece of the puzzle.Fortunately, I have a great team, and we are probably at about 0.05 % non - compliance on time entry at the company.

Banoo Behboodi: That's incredible. Do you have any best practices on how you achieved that? From my interactions with various customers, driving compliance is often a major challenge.

Meredith Brake: We initially attempted a lenient approach, but eventually realized the need for a stricter stance. We implemented a policy where non-compliance with time entry 10 times within a calendar year disqualifies an individual from being a leading performer.

Banoo Behboodi: That's great. So it's actually tied to their incentive assessment. In my experience, those who tie it to bonuses and formal assessments have the best success in achieving the type of compliance you have. That's excellent.

Meredith Brake: Right now, we're actively creating a unified goal program within one of our business units. This program will cascade through the entire business, with each goal tied to specific metrics in Kantata.

Banoo Behboodi: That's great. So that's key to your change management, I would assume. Could you share some lessons learned and suggestions for the listeners regarding things to consider while managing change, like looking at your remuneration and individual assessment plans?

Meredith Brake: Yes, as the data improves, it is essential to tie the metrics to the business because that is how growth is achieved. Engagement margin and utilization must be linked together as a goal. For instance, you may have a good engagement margin because time was allocated to administration instead of the project, making the engagement margin look great but showing low utilization. Enforcing proper time management is challenging, but making it a goal is necessary.

Furthermore, regular people management is crucial.The system will provide output, but managing the team remains the responsibility of the managers.It is not solely up to the system; effective people management is key.

Banoo Behboodi: Yeah, it gives you the data to hold your people accountable.

Meredith Brake: Right. But if they're not allocating their time correctly, then you as a manager need to know that. We don't have any way to verify that the information is accurate. As managers, you must ensure that the time entries reflect the actual work being done. There has to be some level of ownership and responsibility on the manager with any type of system.

Banoo Behboodi: I agree. You've mentioned the BUs several times. It seems like the implementation was staged, bringing in BUs one at a time. What does that typically look like? After you complete an implementation, how do you plan for continuous improvement? How do you budget and account for that? How do you anticipate future needs?

Meredith Brake: The BUs have to own their own data. We can't be their police. Each BU has taken its own sweet time in getting all the data in. I can't say that we've done any implementation that's been perfect, where we’ve gotten forecasting, resource management, and time management all done instantly. It takes time. It's pure change management. They’re used to one way, then they have to do it another way.

Time management seems to be the easiest thing for us to get the team to comply with because they were already putting time into one system, so it's just a mandate to put their time into the projects. Projects are set up at the time. It's the keeping up with your task tracker, making sure that your invoicing is right, and ensuring your forecasting is accurate.We're getting better and better.

We do an implementation and we have a lot of office hours.We have a lot of Kantata invoicing office hours, a lot of training, and a ton of training.I'm lucky; I have a big team and a good team of project admins and managers that own it. We give them different tools within the reporting for data governance, which is a big piece. We've used Power BI to capture the data from a visualization perspective, where we can have a better outlook on the data.Our team spends time reviewing that and then going back to the engagement team.The Power BI boards are new, so we've only rolled them out slowly since September.

It's a work in progress to get the team on board, but they all like it a lot. Over the last two years, I've felt like I've hoarded a lot of data. People ask a question, and I'm like, "I know that, why don't you?" Probably because I know how to download information from Kantata, then I just do a pivot table and I'll look at it. Not everyone knows how to do all that. I felt like I was hoarding a lot of data because there's a lot of data in Kantata.I had one of my team members build out these visualization boards from Power BI for each of the business units.

To me, everything is a journey.My team makes fun of me because it's a journey. We’ve got to land planes, but we've got to take them in pieces.Go from New York to DC, don't go all the way out to California. Land some planes, make some progress so you can get some data. They have the data now, the boards are built, and now it's about teaching them how to read the boards.We’re going to have monthly and quarterly inspections with each of the engagement leads over the next year so we can help them analyze their data and they can start making business decisions.They can understand how efficient one project is over another.We’re going to drive engagement margin and success by making people more accountable.

Banoo Behboodi: So, to summarize what I'm hearing, you highlighted three critical success factors from a change management perspective. First, you can't take corrective action if you're not measuring it. You need to look at adoption and your numbers to see where you need to drive further adoption and accountability. Second, training is essential. It's not just about having extensive training programs, but ensuring the right training is provided at the right time for the right person. Too much training can overwhelm people, so it's about finding the right balance.

Meredith Brake: It might not be the training as much as the office hours.

Banoo Behboodi: Office hours. I was getting to that. That was my third thing. Office hours, yeah.

Meredith Brake: The office hours, I think, are essential because they give everyone the platform to ask the questions they have, and it doesn't just sit there. We have a lot of office hours after an implementation because we want to make sure that we're listening, understanding, and helping them drive the outcomes we are looking for.

Banoo Behboodi: If the listeners are starting this journey, they may be either in the selection process or have selected and started implementation. What are the top points that you want to leave with them to help ensure their success?

Meredith Brake: Metrics and telemetry. To me, it's all about the data output. What you get out of the system is how you can drive success. Any implementation, as long as you are looking for outcomes, could be an ERP system. You want to make sure you can bill your clients. What's your measure of success? How fast do you get cash in the door? So there is a measure of success for any program, any implementation, anything you're doing. Understand what that measure of success is or have a general idea and then change it if it's at a different level. Have the ability to change and pivot because you will learn things as you go and listen to people who have used it before.

Banoo Behboodi: Yes, absolutely. I love that. As you know, together we have also established objectives. We're looking at how Kantata is helping you reach those objectives. Measurement and holding each other accountable are critical, whether at the partnership level or individual company level.

Thank you, Meredith.Let me finish with one more question: I usually ask about a book or a mentor, but let's focus on mentors. Are there any mentors you would like to share, and why were they effective in your life?

Meredith Brake: I thought about that because I haven't really had a mentor that I could specifically name. However, I have had numerous roles in my career. My background includes being a CFO and CEO in real estate companies. In every company, I've always had someone—either my boss or a colleague—who was my confidant. This person helped me make decisions and navigate my day-to-day responsibilities. In every company, I connected with someone to such a level that they became my partner in crime. So, rather than having a single mentor, I've always found a partnership in my professional life.

Banoo Behboodi: Thank you, Meredith. I appreciate you joining us for this podcast.

As always, thanks for listening.If you have any follow - up questions for myself or Meredith, we would love to hear from you.Send an email to podcast @kantata.com, and we would be happy to get back to you.You can also connect with us on LinkedIn.Thanks, everyone, and have a great day.

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