Episode 86 Transcript

Banoo Behboodi: Welcome to the Professional Services Pursuit, a podcast featuring expert advice and insights on the professional services industry. I'm Banoo and I'm excited to be on the podcast today with someone I've worked with before. I've had the pleasure of interviewing Monique Ludwig at TSIA, and I have the privilege of working with Monique as a member of Ciena who is a customer.

I appreciate you being on today, Monique.Monique is an expert in optimizing professional services, operations, and resource management.She's the director of Global Services PMO at Ciena, always brings engaging insights, and I'm excited for our discussions and conversation today.Monique, welcome.

Monique Ludwig: Oh, thank you, Banoo.It's great to be here, and I'm so happy that you had me again.I look forward to our conversation as always.

Banoo Behboodi: Monique, I think we should start by having you introduce yourself and let the listeners know a little bit about your experience at Ciena and before that.

Monique Ludwig: Sure, no problem.As you know, I'm not a young pup here, but I've been with the industry for going on 30 years now.I've always been in technology, and I've been in all areas of the profession, including data center, networking, and workspace.I've held many positions, but a majority of my career has been spent back and forth between PMO functions and project management. That's where my passion lies.They're the face to the customer. I like being around the customer, and I love technology, so they just go hand in hand.

That's where I landed after many companies, and when I say many, I mean four major ones. I started at EDS, then Hewlett-Packard, moved to Cisco, Juniper, and now I'm at Ciena.I've always been with technology companies, and I love it.

Banoo Behboodi: We have a similar span of careers with a similar distribution of companies, so it’s always good to speak to you and get your experience on things. Let's kick off, and I think a good place to start is understanding what are the common mistakes you've seen in your career in making or running operations, service operations, or resource management within a service organization, whether that's embedded or consulting. I know you've been in both. What are some of the common mistakes you see happening?

Monique Ludwig: I know it sounds very common, but from a services organization, one of the mistakes I see often is a lack of common expectation and collaboration between a delivery situation and a client situation.Understanding and planning appropriately, whether it's for programs, contracts, portfolios, or engineering products, is crucial. Communication is key.

Right now, with what we're working on in the PMO with resource management, one of the key issues that organizations are not thinking about is getting in the boat together and rowing at the same time. Otherwise, you'll never hit shore, you'll take on water, and eventually sink. That's what I always tell my people.If you don't have a common understanding of how you're going to plan, forecast, and collaborate on managing your resource pool, it is most likely going to get very distorted, and you'll never get that enterprise view.

As a project manager running a project, you don't see that enterprise view because you're focused on making sure your resources are right for your project.You don't care too much about what's going on in the rest of the enterprise.But as a resource manager, your role is to manage and handle the enterprise.

If I'm an executive running my business, a resource manager should look at whether they are considering the waste, the right resources at the right time, and the right projects. It gets very difficult to prioritize, and you have to adapt quickly to changing projects. Most program and project managers know that a project's best intentions are just a baseline.More often than not, a monkey wrench will get thrown in there, and you have to adapt quickly.For a resource manager, that's a big deal. If you let a resource sit on a bench for too long, dollars are going out the door very quickly.

So, upfront planning, forecasting, and getting everyone on the same page is key to how you're going to manage resourcing going forward.

Banoo Behboodi: Yes, and I love the fact that you bring up getting everyone on the same page. There are so many different parts of the organization that have to play well together to ultimately lead to customer satisfaction. Proper delivery, executed well, happy customer, and we've achieved it with our colleagues and talent being happy as well.

So, is operations then the team that orchestrates that? Do they ensure that the processes are well- defined in such a way that everyone understands their roles and responsibilities, leading to the seamless execution of services and projects ?

Monique Ludwig: I've seen this managed in a couple of different ways. Ironically, in my current company, the software side of the house and the hardware side of the house manage resourcing completely differently. It doesn't mean one's right or wrong; they just manage differently. One is centralized, so they manage and create all the processes, push out the policies, and manage all the resource pool in one area. That is a great thing for a resource manager because you have some level of control over what's happening and you have a better view and better reporting to some extent.The downside of doing that is that your account teams lose control of being able to quickly swap out resources.They always have to go to somebody, and there's usually some contention there that you have to manage. Hence, communication and collaboration are very important.

The other side of the house is that we have a central group, such as my team, that manages the automation, the tools, and the processes to some extent.We're kind of the best practice team, and we push it out to the regional resource managers. That is also great because they look to us to make sure that they have something to use, a process to follow, and people to work with, like yourself, in technology areas. They have tools that help do this instead of trying to handle it via email or a spreadsheet, which is always a disaster. But it also takes away from being able to essentially control and report on your resourcing sometimes.

The operations team is very much responsible for making sure that they are following the processes and handling any changes to projects, schedules, or technology.For instance, I rely heavily on the SQM, which we call the portfolio team, to let me know when there are new products and services coming out that may require us to drive a new resource pool.

A great example is the software side of the house.We had new technology coming out from engineering that required a software skill we just didn't have inherent in our skill set. Large clients wanted to deploy this technology, so we had to have a strong relationship with engineering and the portfolio team six to eight months in advance. This way, we could either scale our team or start seeking contract heads or establishing relationships with new resources to bring on board and mitigate that gap.

It's all important, and it all comes from upstream—from the sales team telling us what's coming, to the engineering portfolio teams informing us of the necessary technologies, to HR ensuring we have the necessary training.Resource management touches almost every organization.

Banoo Behboodi: I love the concept. I'm going to call it the Center of Excellence. I think that's your team. I love that concept of the Center of Excellence, the way it ensures that across the teams, the process stays standardized, consistent, and well communicated as new requirements come up and are addressed. Is that the role of this Center of Excellence led by yourself?

Monique Ludwig: It is.We take on new requirements, ensuring we incorporate them into our plan of record.We also make sure that what's going on out there doesn't get too far off track, so the variance doesn't become so extreme that you can't report or manage your resource pool anymore.

In my model, a lot of folks can go rogue.They want to do things and start going off on their own.I can't stress enough that these areas often get you into trouble with your reporting, your ability to forecast properly, and getting things under control from a cost perspective.

Banoo Behboodi: Agreed. You mentioned this role and skill set that was identified early enough so you could start thinking about how to fill that gap. I think that's going to come up more and more. Future-proofing talent is going to become even more critical. As technology advances, it depends on the service industry you're in, but regardless, things are moving at such a fast pace that the expectation, even with Generation Z, is that we're helping them maintain, keep up to date, and constantly upskill.

However, that upskilling has to be relevant to our business.What are your thoughts on how businesses tackle future - proofing talent ?

Monique Ludwig: Well, some people don't tackle it, which gets them into trouble because we sign very nice large clients and have the best of intentions, only to find out that we have a dip in skill set. When I say dip in skill set, it's not just the actual technology; sometimes it's their role. There's a difference between skill set and role.People don't understand that, but resourcing folks will.

I can't necessarily get a tester to start coding software, for instance. So you really have to understand if you're taking somebody who normally tests software and say, "Hey, if they test in Camunda, they can now start coding in Camunda," that's a complete falsehood.

You need to look at your engineering plan of record to define whether this will require more coding in a particular language, more installers, more automation, or more engineers.You have to understand what they're trying to accomplish with this technology and figure out the level of effort required to make it happen. Most technologies don't work out of the box; that's just not real life. Plug and play happens after you do a lot of other things, which require skill sets that need to be planned and considered upfront.

Organizations need to pay attention because, as you stated, it's not like back when we started our careers where knowing Fortran and C+ or a few skill sets was enough.

Banoo Behboodi: We’re set for 20 years.

Monique Ludwig: We can make this.Or Unix; my thing was Unix, and then Windows hit.Now, some of the younger generation need to know eight different languages instead of just one or two.They are having a blast at it, but it's because we have this wonderful opportunity to create new things in our tools and technology. However, engineers sometimes go all over the place to create these features and functions. Next thing you know, to make it work in an environment, you have to know all the tools and technologies they've coded in.

If you're not in that conversation upfront, you will almost certainly struggle in the environment looking for those skill sets. You will either be costed out trying to find a resource at the last minute, which will blow your budget, or you'll scramble to train folks, ending up with an entry - level person who really needs to be an expert.It is becoming, and has been, an issue in my world for the last few years.It's almost a panic moment sometimes, quite frankly.

Banoo Behboodi: Yes, and I think that’s where it becomes critical. To your point, understanding where demand comes in becomes critical, meaning that you need to be looking at resource managers, at demand at early stages of sales and be engaged in that process and understanding so that some of the challenges with respect to skill set are not faced during the actual once you sign the contract and now you go and deliver.

Monique Ludwig: Unfortunately, operations is often the last to know.I always say no one wants to have the conversation with operations, but they should be part of that services and product introduction—we call it gates, or before you pass it over, throw it over the fence as we say.You really have to be part of that conversation upfront so you can prepare the workforce appropriately.

Banoo Behboodi: Yes. Even during the opportunity stage when something is committed, as early as that would be helpful.

Let's pivot now to project management and program management. I know that is an area you love, so just three pieces of advice for those running a PMO organization on optimizing project management delivery, etc.

Monique Ludwig: I think from a PMO perspective, it is often hard to gain the respect of the business because we're often looked at like we're the parent, trying to parent what the business is trying to do.One thing I would say is that you need to have a strong charter on what you're trying to accomplish, have a direction, and make sure that your internal customers agree that, "Hey, this is what my charter is." I'm not here to beat you down, but I am here to help you.We are here to give you best practices, automation processes to make your life easier.There has to be bilateral communication and buy -in to that charter for sure.

The second thing is communication.Communicate often and more than needed.They might get sick of it, but find the media that people will listen to.I am not a huge emailer.I think it has its purpose for data that you might need to refer back to, but I am now in the age of instant messages and things that get right to the user.Communication is big.

Specifically around resource management, not just program management, it has been a difficult haul because it is hard to get upstream.If you can forecast what's coming at you, that is really key because you can get ahead of it before it becomes a problem, and it often will become your problem, by the way.

Banoo Behboodi: Yeah, exactly. I work with many of our customers and especially prospects joining us as customers. One of the problems they are trying to solve is forecasting accurately. They may have information about what has already occurred, but understanding where their project is, their forecasted margin at project, program, and portfolio levels, and being able to foresee resource demands when someone is on leave has been a challenge. I know this is a challenge you have tackled in your career, if not at Ciena. What thoughts do you have around the basic components you have been working on to drive that forecast out further and more accurately?

Monique Ludwig: Right.There’s something we haven't looked at yet. We know how to fix it; getting executive sponsorship to get it done is the key. Sales becomes a huge component of this, and we know that our sales teams do not like to spend time doing administrative work for a good reason, because they're the core of the company, bringing in revenue.But there has to be some give and take.A lot of the challenge we see is staged opportunities, for instance, that are never attended to.We don't know whether they're real or not.It's a push sometimes in a lot of conversations to have behind the scenes because you can't always trust what you're looking at. Bad data in, bad data out.

I have a great example, and I don't want to, it's just a historical thing that happened.We had a resource manager that, not here but in a different entity, trusted that an opportunity was coming to fruition and staffed 20 contractors before Christmas.The deal was on hold.The data was wrong.There were no checks and balances, no communication.We had spent a million and a half dollars in one month while these contractors sat and did nothing, then another six to eight weeks to get them trained, and another three weeks delay.You can imagine the disaster.The deal was upside down before it even started.I see that happening a lot.It's a partnership. The margins on that deal were blown, and there was a lot of headbutting on whose fault it was. It came down to communicating and getting some cooperation upfront to understand why this is important. We're dealing with competitive resources in the market.We're competing with other companies looking for the same resources. They're not always easy to get, and we need to make sure the plan is the plan, and we have a good forecast of when it's coming and when we start.

Another huge problem in resource management and for the companies is using contract labor, which most of us do, mainly because we have to.It's a good alternative to backfilling what you need. But you have to build in enough cost in your deal to upskill, train, and onboard, even onboard the client. We've seen a lot of costs run over.Some clients require eight weeks before you get security clearance.All those factors play into what ends up happening, not what you planned for.

Banoo Behboodi: The backbone to forecast accuracy in a service organization is obviously resource forecasting. If you can’t get that right, you can’t do financial forecasting. You can, but it would be difficult to do financial forecasting, so I appreciate all of the comments you’ve made.

Now I think it would be remiss of me not to bring up AI because it seems like that’s the thing we have to do these days.We’ve got to talk about AI and how you’re thinking about it, how your organization is thinking about it, and how it’s going to help you guys do your job easier or better.

Monique Ludwig: My team will tell you I love technology.With good things, there come bad things, but I choose to focus on the positive aspects.I'm looking at AI as an opportunity to do some really fun things and reduce the level of effort required from our PMs.

From an AI perspective, we're starting to explore predictive analytics. For instance, if we know that a type A project will take 12 weeks and we can predict its start date, we can probably tell you at some point which resources will be needed and whether they're available.All of those factors are in play right now with AI, which we would love.

We're also looking at building a front end to all of our technologies since we use 11 to 12 different systems for our PMs, which is insane when you think about it. But it's the way of the world for PMs.We're considering building a front end with AI that we can command, for example, "I need to do a job change order," and it automatically opens up the job change order, pre-fills it with Salesforce data, pre-schedules in Kantata, adds budget to Kantata, and so on.

We're starting at our service desk since it’s the easiest. You can write knowledge articles, chats, and do other tasks. This is our first entry-level step to get our toes in the water. Nothing is off the table. I always push my teams, saying this is the way of the world. The great and challenging aspect of our job is that there's always something new.

Reflecting on my career, I started out in Unix, and I had to push 55 engineers who were Unix specialists into learning Windows as well.They still needed to know their Unix and Linux for the back end but had to adapt to Windows.One of them is now a CTO at Microsoft.I always tell people that you have to move with the times.You can't stand behind and hope that things will go away because they will just run right over you.

Banoo Behboodi: Yes, and the building block to any AI initiative within your organization to support efficiency, predictability, and all those items you mentioned is good data. It seems like you have that building block now to start thinking about the creativity that AI can bring. The key thing everyone needs to think about is whether they have the systems and processes that support good data, which can then drive better business outcomes within the organization.

Perfect.Now we come to my favorite part, which is asking you a personal question.I'll leave it up to you: favorite book or a mentor that's been effective in your life and what's made them effective as a mentor? Both, one, whatever you want to take on. I'm excited to hear.

Monique Ludwig: I don't know if you're familiar with the mentee program, but I was part of it when I was very young.I was lucky to get involved with that.I worked with a CEO, who was a woman.This was very encouraging for me because I worked in a male - predominant environment.She taught me to make sure I had ideas, a voice, and the ability to command and do things.She really boosted my career, giving me the confidence to move on to the next level.Sometimes, you second guess yourself, questioning if you are really worthy of doing what you're doing. She was inspiring in that regard. By the way, I made a New Year's resolution to read 25 books this year.

Banoo Behboodi: That's two books per month.

Monique Ludwig: I know, which doesn't seem hard, but when you look at my life, sometimes it's kind of crazy.But I do like this book by Pat Summitt.She's very well-known in the United States. She was a basketball coach for the University of Tennessee, and I'm reading Raise the Roof.She has a few other books.She's so amazing. She realized early on that the basketball team she had formed—by the way, she won three championships back to back, amazing lady—required not only coaching but also interpersonal relationships with these kids.

A lot of them were coming from rough backgrounds, single - parent homes, and not a lot of means.They were struggling, and basketball was really their only opportunity to go to college.She changed her approach to management and leadership, becoming a leader rather than just a manager.She became very integral in their lives and got to know what made them tick.

That's such a part of what I try to do now as a leader—get involved, not to the point of invading privacy, but understanding that there are always things going on in people's lives that will affect their workday and productivity.Pat Summitt took such an interest in her players that she went to their classrooms, made sure they sat in the front row, and ensured they got good grades.She provided tutors when needed and spent a lot of extra time with them.

As a leader and within an organization, you need to take that care to some degree.You have to get people to invest in their careers and roles.We're in a situation where it's different from when we started our careers.Even though I've been at four companies over 30 years, I was playing follow the leader rather than jumping ship because I didn't like my company.

The new generation has a lot of opportunities to move and roll with the punches.They're not staying at careers and companies for 30 years. Keeping them engaged and understanding what makes them tick is really important. So, that's my book for this month: Raise the Roof.I hope I get through it because I have another one to read after it.

Banoo Behboodi: I have added it to my list, so next time we talk, we'll do a book club. I'm so glad you brought this up because I'm passionate about adjusting how we manage and lead. With Generation Z coming into the workforce, we actually did three episodes on how we need to adapt and adjust. I have three Gen Z kids, so I'm very in tune with the ways we have to adapt to retain and excite them.

Thank you, Monique.It's been fun. Thanks for joining us. I know you're always very busy.

As always, thanks for listening.If you have any follow - up questions for myself or Monique, we would love to hear them.Just send us an email at podcast @kantata.com, and we'd be happy to get back to you. Thanks so much and have a great day.

Monique Ludwig: Thank you, Banoo.Nice to talk to you.

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